Ryan Weber: Welcome to 10-Minute Tech Comm. This is Ryan Weber at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, and I wanted to welcome you to the show. I also wanted to thank you for listening. September 16th, 2024 is the 10-year anniversary of 10-Minute Tech Comm. The first episode launched on September 16th, 2014, featuring Bart Leahy on freelancing. I appreciate all the listeners who have stuck with this show for 10 years. And those that have discovered it along the way. I hope that we can get another 10 more.
In that vein, we have today’s guest, Karen Rempel. Karen joins us today to talk about how writers can craft better resumes and give better interviews. I invited Karen on the show because I love getting a lot of peoples’ perspectives on what makes an effective resume. I find that every time you ask someone their opinions about resumes, you get different insights, some of them complementary, some contradictory, on what makes for a great resume. Karen has a lot of experience reviewing writer resumes and interviewing writers, so I hope you find some insights in the interview.
BEGIN INTERVIEW
Karen Rempel: Hi everyone, my name is Karen Rempel, and I’ve been a technical writer for a few decades now. I’ve also been quite actively involved in the Society for Technical Communication. I was the president of the Canada West Coast chapter for one year, but also served other roles for a number of years with that chapter, and one of the things that I did was help implement an interview service. So that was to help budding technical writers or aspiring writers pair up with experienced writers to find out more about the field and what steps to take. And that program was also picked up by the STC in Chicago and in New York, and I wrote an article about it for Intercom, if you’re familiar with that STC publication.
So that’s some of my background as a technical writer, but I was also the STC competition judging manager for the international competition, where I managed a team of 20 judges, where we were evaluating technical writers’ work. So I feel like I’ve had quite a lot of experience with looking at other people’s work and deciding what sounds good, what doesn’t read well, what’s not clear, but also coaching people on how to improve.
I’ve always been a consultant technical writer. I’ve been on contract with Bloomberg for over four years now, and during that time I’ve been interviewing different writers for our team. So I’ve been looking at quite a lot of resumes, in fact probably dozens of resumes over the last four years. So I have a number of things that I would love to offer to your listeners, Ryan. So thank you very much for inviting me on the show today.
Ryan: Great. We’re so happy to have you, and I guess let’s dig right into it. So you said you’ve reviewed dozens of resumes. What are you looking for in a tech writing resume that’s really going to set a candidate apart?
Karen: Well, the number one thing is, Ryan, I am looking for impeccability. You would be surprised that many writers don’t take the time to make sure their resume is, for example, free of typos. That should be the absolute no-brainer place to start, and if I see three typos on a resume, I’m not going to interview the candidate. I’m allowing people one typo, just because we’re human. But really, get a friend to look over if you think you might’ve missed something. There’s just no reason to have mistakes on a resume.
Ryan: So no mistakes. What else are you looking for that kind of makes people stand out?
Karen: Okay. So in addition to the impeccability, if they have a really nice, clean format, something that’s well-formatted. I do expect an element of document design to be one of the skills in any technical writer. I think that should be part of our toolkit.
Well, sometimes people don’t have control over this aspect if their resume is being put forth to an agency, because the agency puts it into their own template, and then they could introduce errors. So that’s unfortunately something we don’t have control over.
But for example, I have one resume that I do. I’m also an artist, so if I’m submitting artwork to a competition or something, I have a really gorgeous resume with a black background and some tasteful photography, small little elements. So any kind of thing like that, you don’t need to go over the top, and it shouldn’t be distracting, but something that is visually appealing will really make a resume stand out.
Ryan: I’ve heard a lot of people say this, that a resume for a tech writer especially is a writing sample and a document design sample. So you want to show your skills as part of the document itself.
Karen: Absolutely. Yeah. It’s like our calling card, and it’s supposed to be showing the best of what we can do.
Ryan: What are some of the other things you see that really are kind of the big mistakes that people make on a resume?
Karen: In terms of other types of mistakes, a very common one is lack of parallel construction. Say in a bullet list, there’s five items and four of them start with a verb, and then the fifth one doesn’t. That really stands out to me as someone who’s, they’re not at the top of their game. They’re not paying attention or else they don’t know that that’s the rule. In either case, it’s a red flag to me that this person doesn’t have the attention to detail that I’m looking for when I’m wishing to bring a new writer onto the team.
Ryan: What are you looking for in terms of people when they kind of describe their experiences? Because I see people sort of struggle with this when trying to describe what they’ve done at work. What kinds of things stand out for you there? Say I’ve worked at Microsoft as a tech writer for five years. What’s a good way to kind of describe that work in a tangible way on a resume?
Karen: So yeah, if you’ve been there five years, you’ve probably done quite a few different things. I would probably have a one-sentence description of a broad overview of the duties and then a bullet list getting into specific projects, accomplishments, types of work, but with, again, with a consistent verb, consistent tense. Sometimes people start a sentence in present and in past or vice versa. I mean, (laughs) I’m a real stickler for that. In fact, I care about that more than I what you actually did in a given job. Maybe that sounds crazy, but I always think people can learn the job on the job, but these skills, I don’t want to have to teach these skills.
Ryan: You want someone to come in with sort of this attention to detail and grammatical knowledge so that you can kind of build on top of that.
Karen: Yes. Since I’ve worked, and I’m sure you have too, in different industries, different types of products, any writer can learn those types of things quite quickly, I think. When you’re talking about your role at Microsoft, yes, it’s really interesting to know what you did there, for example, but really the resume is more about showing that you can do what I need you to do. And that’s another point, of course, is make sure that all of the things in the job description for the role are mirrored somehow in your resume to the extent possible without lying (laughs).
Ryan: So your resume, let’s say you’ve got a great resume, and now you’re getting called in for interviews. You’ve done a lot of interviews and you’ve done a lot of interview coaching. And so what are some tips that you give people to do well in job interviews?
Karen: Well, the first thing, of course, is be punctual. And then when, you know, greet the person in a friendly way with a nice handshake, like a handshake where you’re really feeling the person’s hand in an open, friendly way, not too much of a squeeze. (Laughs). You’ve probably heard this over the years. Some people think that they have to squeeze your hand really hard. They shouldn’t be doing that. I mean, little things like this. These are tips that maybe people wouldn’t know. So I hope I’m not explaining the obvious too much.
Once we actually sit down and start to talk, if I ask a question, it’s important to me that the person be succinct and get to the point of answering what I asked. And I know that some people are coached to, if I ask for a certain skill and you don’t have that skill, they’re coached to segue into some other example that’s meant to show that they don’t have the skill, but it’s okay.
And I find that’s quite annoying when people do that to me in an interview. I want them to own up right away. “I don’t have that skill or that experience.” Then they can say, “But this is something else that I think could be useful or related.” But to just meander on and on and on, and then never actually come around to saying, “No, I don’t have that skill.” To me, that’s just not being forthright. And I wouldn’t trust that person.
Ryan: You want a direct answer to a direct question.
Karen: Yeah, exactly. Yes. Also the succinctness. I mean, recently I interviewed three times within the last few weeks. So this is very fresh, three different candidates. I have them in my mind and how they all behaved in comparison to each other. The candidate who just goes on and on and on and on, I just think that’s how they’re going to be in daily life when I’m working with them at the office. And it’s going to drive me insane. But to be fair, I know people get nervous in interviews and maybe they aren’t actually going to be like that, but chances are they will be like that.
Ryan: Because an interview is a little bit of a, you’re finding someone that is going to work well with the team. And then people don’t always have control over that because they don’t know the team. But I imagine as an interviewer, that’s something in the back of your mind.
Karen: Absolutely. And of course, how they’re going to work with me, the whole team, but especially with me. So one of the good things that can happen is if we create a rapport and then there’s a sense of humor, there’s some common ground of something that we like or think about the same way and then can share a laugh in an interview, then it’s a really great interview.
Of course, I’ve been on the other side many times too, the one being interviewed. And sometimes it can be a pretty stony interview and I think it’s not going well, but then it’s still, I end up getting offered the job, so some of that is personality. As you can probably tell, I have quite definite opinions of things, but I also want to create a warmth and a rapport with the person I’m interviewing.
Ryan: So succinct, but not inhuman or not impersonal in your interview.
Karen: Yeah. Yeah. That would be a really good way to say it.
Ryan: Great. What are some things that people have done that have really impressed you in interviews?
Karen: Well, this is not exactly in the interview, but after the interview, the thank you note, it’s pretty rare these days. And I think the younger generation probably wasn’t trained to do that. And it’s also can be difficult if you’re going through an agency or something, you may not have direct access to the person who interviewed you, but one person did make the effort to send the thank you note.
Someone else made a thank you note on LinkedIn. They found me on LinkedIn and sent a thank you that way. So that also showed initiative. And that’s another thing to mention also, I’m sure we all do this, but it’s a good idea to research who’s interviewing you and just say a word or two of what you learned about them to show that you’ve done that.
Ryan: What kinds of things are you looking for when you research that person? Like what kinds of information would I want to go into the interview knowing ideally?
Karen: Well, if the person’s on LinkedIn, it’s just reading their LinkedIn profile, or if they have a website, reading their website and mentioning that and a few salient facts that you noticed. So, you know, even just, I’ve noticed you’ve, you have a lot of experience and I’m looking forward to the chance to work with you, something like that. It doesn’t have to be anything really special, but just showing they took that kind of effort.
Ryan: Part of that connection. It’s part of the initiative that you’re looking for in the candidate.
Karen: Yeah. Right. For example, if I looked at yours, which I didn’t and I should have. (Both laugh) No, I actually did, but it was a few weeks ago. I’ve forgotten the details, but say I’d noticed that you played soccer, for example. To do a really good interview, (Phone Rings). Sorry, I should turn that off. I would, I would, that’s another thing. Turn your phone off before the interview. (Both laugh).
Ryan: Good example.
Karen: Yeah. Yeah. If say you loved soccer and the World Cup’s coming up, I would bother to find out who’s playing and then ask you a question about that. You know, who, what team do you root for? Or how long have you played? You know, just something like that, that’s a personal detail. I love it when I can find that out about people. It’s not always possible, but it could be something more work-related. Like I noticed you worked at Google. What was that like? Are the snacks as great as they say? Or, you know, just something like that.
Ryan: Here’s a question for you. Do you ask people what their biggest weakness is?
Karen: In the past, I’ve asked that. Now I will reframe it as, what is one area that you think you might be able to work to improve in this role that I could help coach you on?
Ryan: People always struggle with that question. What is a good way to approach that kind of a question?
Karen: Well, (Laughs) I think everyone kind of does the same thing, which is take a weakness, but then try and make it sound like a strength. I don’t know if that’s the best thing to do, but it’s human nature. We don’t want to say anything bad about ourselves.
Ryan: Sure. But when you’re asking this question, you know, and I like that phrasing, you know, what’s something that you can work on that I can help you with? Is there an approach to that question that you’ve gotten where you’re like, oh, that was a satisfying answer?
Karen: Yeah. So maybe it could be something really job specific, like I’m interested in APIs, but I haven’t done very much web API documentation. I’m really looking forward to learning how to do that effectively on your team. You know, it could be something like that, where you know you don’t have one of the skills. I mean, this would be a really great way to address that. If you know you don’t have one of the things they’re looking for on the job description. The thing not to do is say something like, “Oh, I’m always late!” (laughs). Which did happen in one of those three interviews I had recently.
Ryan: So you want to, again, it’s a minefield, right? Everyone has a hard time with that question. So can maybe kind of picking something related to the job and saying, you know, I don’t have as much experience with this. I’m very excited to learn more about it. That kind of thing.
Karen: Yeah. That’s a skillful way to present a weakness.
Ryan: Great. What other advice or encouragement do you have for people that are on the job market right now? I know a lot of people that are.
Karen: Okay. Well, I guess LinkedIn is really a good place to be. And my advice there again is make sure you don’t just slap something together, but have that be like a calling card with very well-written, nicely designed. You’re allowed to put any kind of examples and things that you want on there, so if, if you don’t have anything, create things for that.
I think having a personal website is also a good idea. If a person’s an employee as opposed to a contractor, possibly that’s not as important, but for a contractor, I think it’s, it is important to have a website to showcase your experience, who your clients have been, writing samples. And the writing sample is also another very important aspect of this whole getting a job.
Ryan: What are you looking for in a sample? What kinds of samples generally do you like people to bring in?
Karen: Well, the way it’s been working with these Bloomberg interviews is we get the writing samples upfront. So they’re all in electronic format. I haven’t had people bringing in physical samples in years. I definitely still have mine ready to go for my next interview if I ever need to do that. But in terms of an electronic writing sample, I mean, if they do have a link to a webpage with lots of stuff, that’s really cool.
But if they’re just submitting two samples, that’s really all I would want to see, maybe a shorter one and a longer one. I want it to show that they understand document structure. So that would be the longer one, especially that things are organized clearly and also understanding technical writing conventions. And we haven’t really talked about this very much. I’ll come back to that in a sec.
For the shorter one, that’s the one that I would probably read the whole thing end to end. And I would want to see all the technical writing principles are carried out properly, but in a warm way using second person, if it’s instructions, having a friendly introduction that sets the context and lets people know why they would be reading the document. And also, again, no errors of any kind. And in a short document, I think that’s possible. (Laughs)
Ryan: At least in the short one for sure.
Karen: Yeah. But Ryan, this is the other thing that I really look for in a candidate is someone who has technical writing training and preferably even technical editing training, which is a specific thing and understanding and knowledge of style guides, how to follow style guidelines.
And that’s something that I do always ask about in the interview. You know, that’s a way that people can show they really know their stuff.
Ryan: And is that something that I might want to specifically indicate on my resume too? Kind of going back to what we were talking about before, you know, if I worked at Microsoft and applied the Microsoft style guide, is that something I should be certain to mention on my resume?
Karen: Yeah. I think that would be wise because in my job description, it says knowledge of style guides is a requirement. So if you can mention that, that’s a really great way to show that you have what I’m looking for.
Ryan: Great. And you mentioned technical writing conventions. Is there anything else you wanted to say about that?
Karen: Well, what I’m thinking about is I often get resumes from people who say, have a bachelor in English, or they’ve worked in, I don’t know, journalism, for example. They might have really great writing skills, but as you know, there’s a very different set of requirements for technical writing.
Some of that can be taught quite quickly, but really, I would rather the person has that training. If they’re applying for a position as a technical writer, it’s possible to take a night school course or any kind of, optimally, a program, but at least one course to learn the fluency in that type of language.
Ryan: Great. Well, thank you so much, Karen. Is there anything else you want to add, advice on resumes, interviews that we haven’t covered?
Karen: Well, in terms of dress, what to wear, it doesn’t matter at all. (Laughs).
Ryan: Oh, interesting. Okay. So you say it doesn’t matter?
Karen: No.
Ryan: Okay.
Karen: Yeah. I mean, don’t be dirty. Don’t have dirty or torn clothes, but…
Ryan: So you’re not putting a big emphasis on what people wear to the interview?
Karen: No. I mean, I’m at Bloomberg, which is a fairly, it’s a Midtown Manhattan, huge firm with a global footprint, but people don’t wear suits. You don’t need to wear a suit to the interview. I don’t even really notice what people are wearing unless there’s something wrong with it. (Laughs). But wear nice shoes.
Ryan: Okay. All right. Well, thank you, Karen. This has been a lot of fun, and I really appreciate your insights.
Karen: Thank you, Ryan. It’s been a lot of fun for me too.