Ryan: Welcome to 10 Minute Tech Comm. This is Ryan Weber at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, and I’m excited to welcome today’s guest, Dr. Sarah Gunning of Towson University.
Sarah: I am an Associate Professor of Technical Communication at Towson University, which is just outside Baltimore, and I direct the MS in Professional Writing program, where we’ve got about 50 students. And I used to work as a non-profit grant writer before doing my doctoral studies, and I normally teach courses in research methods, technical communication and information design, and science communication.
Ryan: I invited Dr. Gunning on the show to discuss her recent article, “How Do Nonprofit Proposal Writers Learn Their Jobs? Results of a Nationwide Survey and Interviews,” from the Journal of Business and Technical Communication. This article looks at how non-profit proposal writers learn while they work, because often many of the skills they need aren’t taught at colleges or universities. According to her, a lot of non-profit proposal writing involves community building, and that isn’t work that can be done quickly or easily. I hope you enjoy all the insights from this interview.
Begin Interview
Ryan: Dr. Gunning, welcome to the podcast. I’m really glad that you’re here. I was excited about your article. I’m glad to talk with you about it. Your new article is about research into how non-profit proposal writers learn how to do their jobs. What inspired you to take on this research question?
Sarah: My research was inspired by my own experiences as a non-profit proposal writer. I worked for a couple of non-profits in two different cities. My first job as an undergrad was a non-profit organization where I was a research assistant. And then, after I finished my master’s, I took on a grant writing position in a community organization. I was new to that city, and I realized how steep of a learning curve it was. Even though I’d taken coursework in proposal writing, I realized how difficult of a position it is. I wondered, is this a normal reaction?
At the second position, I found it to be a rather lonely job because I was the only grant writer. I didn’t have a lot of knowledge about the different communities, different neighborhoods, the socioeconomic history of the city. It took me a while to learn that. I wondered if my trial and error was common across the field. That was what I decided to study.
Ryan: I would love to hear a little more about some of these challenges. I hadn’t even thought about that, if you are new to an area, or to be frank, if you’ve lived in an area a long time, there are probably neighborhoods and socioeconomic groups that you don’t interact with very much until you take on this job. Can you talk a little more about the types of challenges that you experienced in this role? What did that learning curve look like?
Sarah: That learning curve showed me how social the non-profit grant writing job is. I had to ask everyone questions. I was in other people’s offices more than I was in my own. I would spend evenings going to public talking point sessions. I would go on ride-alongs for transportation initiatives. I would interview little kids about their experience with this after-school program and their parents.
I realized all of the things that I was using was just a very social aspect of writing. You think of a writer sitting at their desk, at their computer, cranking stuff out. It really opened me up from an introvert to more of an extroverted personality because I had to interact with so many different people just to find the information I needed to do my job.
Ryan: That’s not often something that we teach in the proposal writing classes is all of that work that you’re talking about. You did survey and interview research of non-profit proposal writers. What did you find in terms of people’s experience? What ways do these non-profit proposal writers learn on the job?
Sarah: It’s often trial by fire. Often it is very common for grant writers to be the only grant writer in their organization. They learn very similarly to how I learned, which is by talking to program managers, going to meetings, getting on the ground with people impacted by the grants.
Over time, you learn how to ask strong questions. That’s going to help you get the information you need to write this strong argument. They’ll identify data that will speak to grant funders, learn how to present that in a more effective manner that’s going to connect with the funders, and then also things like managing deadlines. You usually have a six-week turnaround from the time an RFP comes out to when it’s due. Often non-profit organizations are working with other non-profits in the community. You’ve got to have letters of partnership, multiple mission statements, multiple sets of CVs and budgets and all that. It’s pretty interesting.
Ryan: Are there resources that these people go to? You mentioned community members, other people at their organization. Are there other resources that non-profit proposal writers look to as they’re learning their jobs?
Sarah: Yeah. Often there are community events for grant writers because every city has multiple non-profits. I found it to be a very collective community where one non-profit will say, “We’re going to host a grant writing workshop. Why don’t you come?” We’d go to these day-long workshops and just talk about some of the things that we were dealing with. “I’m having trouble coming up with a strong budget” or “I’m having trouble finding measurable goals for this initiative.”
There’s also a lot of professional organizations for proposal writers like the Grant Professionals Association, Association of Fundraising Professionals. They are who I studied in my article because there’s not a set list of all grant writers in the United States. I thought working with professional organizations would be helpful. They were helpful to me too. They provided a good community, even a mentorship. It’s really useful.
Ryan: Awesome. One of the things you looked at was how long it takes. You said it’s trial by fire. One of the things you looked at was how long it takes for these people to feel comfortable in their jobs. What is the time frame for feeling comfortable and confident? When do they know that they’ve arrived?
Sarah: Takes about a year. Takes about six months to a year to feel really confident. I had interviewed and surveyed both consultants who had their own grant writing business and then those who were also just employed by their nonprofit organization. The consultants felt much more comfortable going into strange situations where they’re not familiar with the community served. They just have a down pat. They’ve got these research method skills, these personnel management skills, and these project management skills down pat. The newer proposal writers, it’s got a steep learning curve, but after about a year, they start to feel really comfortable. Great.
Ryan: Did you get any kind of indication of what it is that makes people feel confident in terms of, I’ve arrived or I feel comfortable? What are those indicators for these writers?
Sarah: It’s knowing the community. That is what makes a proposal really solid and come alive. Anybody can read a book on proposal writing and writing proposals and know the genre, but until you know the people you’re working for and with, the proposal might read a bit flat. You don’t have those stories. You don’t have those timelines of impact. I think that really shows the ethos of the organization, of the nonprofit, and shows their commitment to the communities they’re working with. Also, we know exactly where this money’s going to go when we get it. We’re going to do good things with it. This is how I’m going to show you this. If you don’t have that community knowledge, it’s really hard to make that proposal electrified.
Ryan: Well, that makes sense too in saying that there’s this learning curve because you can’t learn the community overnight. A year, that sounds about right. It’s going to take a while to get to know the people that are being served, the people doing this work, the funders, and so I can understand why there’s really no substitute for trial by fire. What kinds of skills do nonprofit proposal writers rely on as they’re learning their jobs?
Sarah: I found three major skills reported in the study. Research methods was the first one, being able to ask good interviewing questions, figuring out how to do a case study of a school program, thinking really methodologically about how they’re collecting data in a systematic way because you’re both using research methods to collect your proposal argument and then you’re also using research methods to help project managers design the study that they’re conducting for their final report.
Second, I found project management is a really important skill because you are working in these tight timelines where you’ve got to turn around your proposal in six weeks from the time an RFP comes out to the deadline.
This was another thing where I was researching proposal writing in nonprofits, but most of the articles I’ve read were about academics funding their own research where they’re really steeped in the knowledge. They have their literature review memorized. They have their methods memorized, but if you’re a nonprofit grant writer, you’re arguing for someone else’s vision, which makes it more difficult.
Then last, personnel management. This fits back into the research methods aspect, but you’ve got to think, how am I delivering these questions to little kids for an after-school program versus older adults, learning about healthcare, just thinking about how you work with those different audiences to get the information you need to do your job.
Ryan: Really a lot of, again, like you said, connection, collaboration skills in a lot of ways. I imagine most writers come in with knowledge of knowing where the comma goes or whatever, but this is the kind of work that takes a while to really develop.
Sarah: It does, yeah.
Ryan: If new proposal writers are listening, new nonprofit proposal writers or people who teach them, what kind of advice does your research offer for new nonprofit proposal writers who are learning on the job?
Sarah: Just to think about the proposal outside of the genre. Think about the storytelling you’re doing and how a lot of people come from a creative writing background or journalistic background, but they love writing and they’re thinking, “How can I use my writing to help my community?” Just think about how you need to combine all of those skills into an argument. “How can my storytelling lead to funding a program?’ One of our students in the GIVE program at my university, which is Grant Writing in Valued Environments, he was writing for part of his internship a grant for a transportation van for an after-school program. He ended up going on the ride-alongs with the students to say, “Oh, how is this?” “Oh, it’s always late” or, “Oh, it broke down or not able to get us from point A to point B.” Going on those ride-alongs and really knowing those kids and teachers and parents really helped him with his argument. Great.
Ryan: Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed talking with you about your research. It’s really interesting and it’s something that as a field we haven’t looked into as much as we probably could have. I appreciate all your insight.
Sarah: Thank you very much.